I don't know, copland, judging from your comment, I don't think Ang should even give you the one bullet.

Maybe you should join the remedial reading course and figure out what I actually wrote.

SG...

Yeah Barn...

Remember when you walked up on Ol' Earl when he went all crazy and talked him into givin' up?

Yeah Barn, I do, Why?

Well, Mayberry has changed waaay too much...cops are gettin' ambushed and killed and leavin' too many families without husbands, fathers, sons and daughters by people who afterwards, their friends/families can't believe they would've have done such a thing...

no Barn...my friends in Chicago say you can still do it that way.

whatever SG...can I have all my bullets instead of just the one you usually let me carry?

I find it interesting that you say 2 weeks ago Law Enforcement dealt with the same issue and didn't take his guns then. Was he arrested? was there a court order to confiscate the weapons? Law Enforcement doesn't go around in an armored cars and just take peoples guns. You are speaking from the perspective in that you know this guy. Law Enforcement did not know him. Why do you presume anyone can just walk into his house and say "give up" when you yourself said he was pushed over the edge...he had 2 choices, comply or hold up in the house. He chose the latter and decided to fire the weapons from his house. If I had a choice between an armored car or walking up to a guy I don't know who is shooting and "pushed to the limit" I'll take the armored car any day. You don't just talk a guy out when you deploy less lethal like they did. Tells you what state of mind he was in. They DID try to talk him out to, he chose not too. Heaven forbid the police have some armor to protect themselves. I like the catch 22 you put them in, too much less lethal, but if they would have had to use lethal force, you'd be all over them for that too. It's funny, I drove around the county today and did not see 1 armored car pulled up at anyone's homes. The Police didn't pick his house yesterday for fun, he brought them into his life that day.

In 99% of the cases I read or hear about, I agree completely with the officer's response. The use of a SWAT capability has been debated in Law Enforcement for years, and probably will be for years to come. There are instances where it is an entirely appropriate response, but I believe in many other instances it does nothing but escalate the situation.

In this case, the man who was causing all the trouble had come to the attention of Law Enforcement 2 weeks ago, after a similar incident. At the time, they didn't feel it necessary to confiscate his weapons.

When this incident occurred, there was no attempt to talk him out. His wife reported that he had forced her from the house at gunpoint, and that was that.

Obviously, I am relieved that there was no loss of life. That said, I believe it could have been handled without the deployment of massive quantities of CS and the use of armored vehicles.

Neo, I have no idea of your background, so I won't resort to your tactic of tossing insults. Then again, you have no idea of mine. I HAVE walked into a hostage situation involving an armed offender and a disarmed L.E.O. I am still here, so obviously that worked out alright. Amazing what a few pizzas can do sometimes.

But I'll give it to you...sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

neocon, for what it's worth, yeah, I would've been willing to walk up to the house. There was no one in there but him by the time the "heroic" police got there...the next day! They came back to escort his wife in to get her stuff and he objected.

My point was simply that one or two officers may have succeeded in talking him out, and if not, they could have simply quarantined the area. I know, so much more fun to destroy the house with gas shells and such.

As far as "snipper rifles" go, he didn't have anything that isn't in every house on that road.

This was not a raging anti-government insano, just an ordinary guy who got pushed too far. Pushing that type of person farther doesn't help any.

Just for reference, some years back a local decided the bank here was taking advantage of him. He holed up in an upper-story office across the street with a .30-06 "snipper rifle" and opened fire through the window of the bank.

The local cop walked up the stairs and told him to turn over the weapon.

He did.

Yes, I know times have changed, but really, armored vehicles are just a shade too much.

Oh, when I sent this story to my friends on the job in Chicago, they got quite a laugh out of the level of response.

Our police officers and SWAT teams are HEROES!

Well SG....Do you want to be the person who goes to tell that deputy's family who went in to talk to the emotionally unstable guy who was shooting that his own family fled the house, that their father (or mother)wont be coming home? Do you want to be the kid of that deputy that grows up without a father (or mother)? All the cops show up to have the resources to deal with him. You obviously have no idea how the real world handles these things now. The days of the cowboy are over. I heard some reports that the guy had deputies in his sights with his scoped rifle. We should let law enforcement use all the resources they need. Obviously they did something right. No one was killed. You can call the sheriff's dept and they can put you on the list of people to call who is going to volunteer to walk in there and talk. By the way, you dont think they tried talking to him the 13 plus hours they were there???

Funny, I didn't read in the story the "good ol' neighbor" went down and tried to talk him out or reason with him. I wonder if the firing of the gun had anything to do with it...? how do you know they didn't try to talk with him first? don't forget he shot himself, he wasn't shot by the Police. Yeah, those quasi-military police showing up when someone is shooting indescriminately at what appears to be anyone or anything. Your armchair is calling you SG.

Ol' Boy lived down the road from me. It was a joke. One guy, house all by itself, no one else in it. There were Sherrif's deputies from Walworth County and McHenry County, IL there, as well as Wisconsin State Police. They were carrying M4 carbines, or some variant thereof, and the one Deputy I spoke to had the dust cover of the piece open, so I would infer there was a round chambered.

Don't know if they even thought of trying to send one Deputy in to talk to him before they brought in SWAT and the armored vehicles, and all that routine, but it might have worked a bit better than using it as a training exercise to mount a quasi-military assault on the house.

Just my humble litte opinion.

well "enlighten" us badgerboy how you would handle it. Share with us your Law Enforcement experience and please emphasize your tactical experience.

All that firepower from three counties for one person who is known to be alone in a house out in the boonies?